general discussion

 same strain mutation

  removal of lymph nodes

   one parent’s experience on avoiding viral shedders



this is about what i call  viral shedders,  that is, people with similar MHCs (major histocompatibility complex) to yourself who shed viruses that are already tuned to your immune system and so readily infect you with cold viruses etc. and much more severely too!

you have to minimise physical/breathing space contact with these people, unfortunately they will often be people you more easily get along with !

an interesting  study  on influenza   super - emitters !

   five patients  (19 percent)  emitted up to 32 times more virus than others 

also they say the particles are real small so a mask is not of much use

probably a twelve foot infectious haze around them

pre-diabetics and diabetics as a  source  of influenza infection !

this hazard is everywhere, for instance one of the big problems with health food stores is the staff can be dripping viral toxic and you risk getting a virus of some sort because the chronically ill gravitate to these places, both customers, staff and owners !

the general schizophrenia of the alternative health scene is in large part due to this chronic viralness, nautropaths and their ilk are all chronic viral shedders and the nature of their business exposes them daily to a crucifying amount of viruses

i would take it from this  study  that obese people are viral shedders to some or a greater extent, we have an evolutionarily inbuilt aversion to obese or otherwise suspected ill people !

bad  microbiomes  can be shed too !

“ at least 50–60% of the bacterial genera from the intestinal microbiota of a healthy individual produce resilient spores, specialized for host-to-host  transmission ”

doctor's waiting  rooms  are a significant source of viral infection which is obvious from our own experience of the dripping and hacking nits spreading their germs everywhere ! :o(


it's really very people dependent, you can learn to identify bad shedders and some are unbelievable.

shedders who have a similar immune patterning to yourself can be very crippling with even a glancing exposure

it's actually an issue with the care of the aged by their children, especially sons, the mutual constant exposure and the positive feedback loops of viral amplification with immune systems vaccine damaged in the children and the aging parents possibly on steriods add up to a nightmare

    aged care in china  study

  “ the assistance of daughters-in-law, but not their own children,

        helps mitigate depression among older people in china ”

depression = increased viralness

i.e. contact with close genetic relatives increases viral load

this will be another problem of the mothers having children later in life, their viral resistance is lower

actually for parents locked into life long care of their kids, it will be pretty crucifying

however the question of immune matching is quite random and not necessarily close genetic relatives at all, people that are not in any way related can have very good immune matches with you with the consequent nasty transmission and infection consequences

a viral shedder acts as an accumulator and one gets the last six months of what has been going around all slightly mutated to aquire some immune system avoiding stealth, just in one breath from one person

a sibling who is a viral carrier can be especially lethal as the aquired stealth is tuned to avoiding your immune system

exposure to a bad shedder can knock you out for at least 12 days, you have a cluster of viruses to recover from

naturopaths and doctors surgeries are also bad for this, as is any 'alternative practioner' and a lot of doctors and a fair few dentists, and hospitals and schools, and drug users of course

its so bad now that doctors all have some degree of dementia from this constant exposure, and the decline in compedent medical advice is very noticable

old people on steriods are extreme viral carriers, and probably people on steroids generally

contact with people is the mental health system exposes one to possibly contagious brain viruses that science has no idea about, psychologists and psychiatrists are very affected.

anything to do with the pyschiatric profession is very viral, the mentally ill have all sorts of nasty brain affecting viruses, the golden rule is to completely avoid any contact with that area

  i include most pyschiatrists and pyschologists as being mentally ill because they are

hairdressers and barbers are breathing into your airspace for 10 to 15 minutes at least giving the opportunity for quite a bit of viral exchange.


S. writes about her daughter:

So far, we've avoided the viruses, but she hasn't. In fact, it's missing school due to illness and getting frantic about catching up that has her rethinking this whole (bad) idea, although we have to commend her initial pluck. At this point, we're just hanging in there to see if they offer an alternative, supportive, MUCH smaller placement that isn't an "emotionally disturbed" setting, even though dd is a drama queen when in the wrong setting for her.

She's really tired of the lack of like-minded peers, and needs more socializing, which school offers, at least at lunch clubs and after school clubs. And that's why she has pushed herself despite her (very real) physical limitations.

my reply:

like me, shes only going to be attracted to, and be attractive to chronic viral sheddders so if she wants to live and not be a wreck, the answer is to minimse rl social contact and use the net and phone to the max

since the speakers in (ordinary) phones have a magnetic field that passes into the brain when held against the ear, i have put a sort of a cup on my phone to space the speaker further away from the brain when used

with a bit of observation it's possible to considerably develop the skill of identifying chronic viral shedders and susceptibility is going to vary according on ones own genetic immune system profile


  “ In fact we found that memory CD8 T cells already killed target cells in the lymph node and decreased viral spread to the liver and spleen when the virus just barely started to multiply ”

fox chase cancer center virologist luis j. sigal 2007  study

The Fox Chase experiments show that memory CD8 T cells rapidly multiply and kill target cells inside the lymph node.

what this means is that arm exercise/movement to move the lymph around is very helpful, and also unfortunately that people with breast and other cancers who have had their lymph nodes removed are going to be viral pits of contagion

removal of the lymph nodes is going to make them more likely to get cancer again since cancers must pass through the lymph nodes to metastasize and in doing this, they risk being killed by the immune system.


avoiding high viral shedders is now part of what is necessary in modern life and has actually spelt the end of the school system

young adults now (2006) who were vaccinated with the DPT vaccine up until it was changed about 1990 are damaged and usually strong viral shedders, the very early DPT vaccines 1981? were particularly atrocious

adolescence can be surprisingly virally susceptible, probably the immune system has to reduce action for all the brain changes taking place (read neural trimming), so that the immune system doesn't go for the brain

also growing so much at that age would make for vulnerability

viral shedders are usually symptomless because their immune systems are so below par they don't get symptoms and often have a reputation for never getting ill

this is respiratory viruses

health stores with just one or two people you know not to be viral are ok, provided a viral customer does not come in

viral contagion from close relatives, especially siblings can be a major issue

a sibling who is a viral shedder will mutate the viruses slightly so they are able to penetrate deeper into the brain, having aquired some stealth features which are tuned genetically to circumvent your immune system so they will hit harder neurologically and longer

gastric bugs also affect the brain because of the common biochemsitry the gut and brain has, and cruise ships, or navy boats (the crews immune systems in the usa are crippled by over intensive vaccinations) are especially bad for brewing up viruses with a bad neurological component

crisue ships mostly carry retirees (despite the sunny youthful advertising!) and one ship i know of had an average passeneger age of 77 for the trip it was claimed, anyway, a ship of 1900 steriod swilling, immune suspressed elderly with a fair portion of those from northern hemisphere winters just wrecks the summers here in the southern hemisphere with their huge viral loading being circulated from port to port

non-viral just about anything can be tolerated, viral is like an atomic bomb and just fries all the tolerance to anything off


Human rhinovirus infection (the coughs, sneezes and sniffles of colds) is responsible for half of all asthma attacks and is a factor in bronchitis, sinusitis, middle ear infections and pneumonia.

some human rhinoviruses result from the exchange of genetic material between two separate strains of the virus that infect the same person  study


C. (june 06) asks

Just out of curiosity, how do you identify a viral shedder? Beyond the typical hack or cough. Just wondering, or is it by gut instinct?

E. replies

Regarding viral shedders, Quite the contrary actually, It's been my experiance that the bod's that Don't express viral symptoms via coughs, runny noses etc etc are the ones that seem to harbour viruses and spread them about, They get viruses going to the brain instead and affecting mood, Perspective and behaviours ie Irritable/cranky, A silliness of behaviour/thought that later makes you wonder "What were they thinking" My brother is the one on that last occation I was talking about, He is one of the worst I've Ever met unfortunately, If I spend Any time with him at all about 4 hrs later I feel SO tired, teary low and really quite ill... :o( Not to mention foggy brained and quite unable to comprehend studies read... (He is high functioning autistic/metals etc toxic and has all the health issues) My son (22) is the same but is out of home and doesn't do the compendium supps anymore so...:o(

It might sound a bit bizarre but if you study some bods you know that sound like that and have regular contact with over the viral season in particular you might be quite surprised, See how you feel some hrs afterwards it's a real indication imo.


J. (june 06) writes

Yes, I was thinking about that last night after remembering Eileen's post of a viral shedder. Four of my relatives are teachers and never seem to catch bugs going around, but have other chronic low grade health complaints. Actually, many of my relatives could be viral shedders and when I stop and think about it I was probably one till I started working on my health. I never caught anything- even as a teacher before kids- till the last few years of trying to improve my diet and supplements. Now I seem to catch everything, usually a milder form but more drawn out.


J. writes:

My daughter also has extreme sensitivity to Candex.

Tolerating the Houston trio okay, but at times I am questioning it. She has been having lots of positives but the biting, temper tantrums, etc are continueing and I am trying to figure out what it could be. Of course reading this thread makes me wonder about the enzymes. BUt, I do feel she needs enzymes. Any suggestion as to how to figure out if it is the enzymes (stop them?? - don't really want to because I think she'll get "foggy" really quick). She takes the enzymes very willing, at times initiating in on hew own - sees the cup on the counter and says "take medicine/vitamin" and sips it up.

my reply:

does she go to school? do the other children go to school?

schools are viral breeder reactors

you can't beat viral impress, summer just gives a glimpse of what life is like without it

when things are viral they just slip remorselessly backwards and the parental brains also go under locking in the downward path

kids can't go to school and survive

the usa vaccine program has made all kids immune impaired and they don't just carry viruses, they breed new mutations that then reinfect those around them, which then circulate back, then mutate and reinfect again

the hep b vaccine is bad for damaging the pancreas islets and hence insulin production is crippled

you do see the huge cost of sending them to school don't you, the viralness of school just cuts them down all the time and some of it is permanent, and you are losing the chance to get some pancreas islet retooling if the child is under consant viral load, actually they losing this ability all the time as they grow older to, the younger they are the more they can regenerate islets from their pancreas

they give the hep b vaccine to napalm the pancreas islets then send them to pre school and school where the viral load ensures that the pancreas can never regenerate


  “ The  researchers  (study : how excess alcohol depresses immune function)  found further that the dendritic cells from alcohol-fed mice showed reduced antigen presentation to T cells compared to those from control mice, as well as less production of the regulatory cytokines. This research also confirmed earlier results showing that alcohol inhibits cytokine secretion by dendritic cells ”

in short, alcoholics and heavy drinkers are viral shedders, even social drinking like in the pub can temporarily impair the immune system which i noticed when i occasionally ate at a pub (local RSL !) for a while, a combination of the drinkers in the other room and the aged clientele of the restaurant always left me feeling quite virally hit afterwards

eating at the same time as being virally exposed amplifies the negative effect of the exposure because the digested food particles in the blood confuse the immune system, drastically raising the noise to signal ratio so to speak !

drug users are also viral shedders, who knows what is happening to their immune systems with what they take !

this viral shedding from these people is why counsellors and the like have shredded brains !




  “ [..]  the evolution of seasonal influenza is more  complex  than previously thought, and that multiple forms of the same strain co-circulate and re-assort within a single population, rapidly generating genetically novel viruses with the potential to ignite major epidemics  ”

my  comment 

viral shedders are one person creators of mild mutations which are able to get under the immune system radar screens of others with similarly  keyed  immune systems

“ when a viral infection spread through five genetically identical mice in a row, the virus replicated faster and became more virulent or severe

but when the infection spread one-by-one through five genetically diverse mice, the virus had trouble adapting and became less virulent ”

so while you may have immunity to a community virus that's going around, if you come into contact with a viral shedder with an immune system similar to yours ,  you will again catch a variant of the community virus with a stealth mutation designed to avoid detection by your immune system



T cells need B cells to kill pathogens


B cells come from the lymph nodes, so, anybody who has had lymph nodes removed for cancer treatment is going to be more to very viral depending on the amount of lymph nodes removed

“ the mouse T cell function is unperturbed in the absence of lymph nodes, whereas B cell activation and antibody secretion is  strongly  affected

[..]  suggests a novel function for the liver as an alternate site for T-cell activation ”



jan 2010

Hey guys, It's been forever since I've been able to be on here and was happy to see my yahoo account was still active in spite of 1800 spam messages and over 900 emails  (all junk hopefully since I just deleted  the whole mess)  :o)

But, just wanted to say hi while I had the chance and let you know that while times have been very financially tight for our family and I am unable to do any supplements beyond Houston zymeprime, we are all still doing quite well. The compendium was able to reset what was off in our bodies and by eating home raised chickens, eggs, garden veggies and deer from our woods, we are able to get by nicely with just the enzymes. I know the supplements would be ideal but unfortunately not affordable for us right now.
We're still gluten free, but eat organic dairy products freely

I'm still homeschooling and we just don't go out during the late fall/winter/early spring; my husband goes to the grocery store and runs errands and brings home library books for us. Both children are growing and thriving and happy and yes, they've been sheltered from peers their own age, besides occasional cousin visits  (non-flu season ones),  but honestly, the idiotic way people are these days, I'm not seeing that as an issue

We completely stopped going to church, it was a guilt issue pushed on me by my parents growing up and I can see Andrew's view now on the viralness of such people. I realize some people will read that and not understand what I am saying and think I am a horrible mother to cloister my children in such a way. But I say it unapologetically and think that I am a damn good mother  for doing so

We also stopped seeing the DAN doctor and the naturopath for I guess at least two well child visits (?), I haven't really kept count lol. By avoiding most viral contagion, none of us have been sick for as far back as I can remember, besides a couple colds my husband picked up and was able to quickly fight off with olive leaf tea and sambucol. Why go to a well child visit when the children are already well? To pick up a new illness to spend weeks dealing with? No, thank you. Viral exposure is one of the hugest issues I think. I daresay propose it to be THE issue, at least for us. Oh! And I finally managed to stop eating chocolate completely last summer or spring. Two times I tried it again, got severe migraines so don't miss it one bit anymore. And, I'm convinced it made me foggier thinking

Anyway, I felt that I had had to leave the internet rather abrubtly and wasn't able to fully express my thanks to Andrew for this board and all of his hard work and research and his kindness to share it. Andrew, you truly truly turned the life around of my little boy and my whole family and best of all made me THINK for myself again. I was about to blindly chelate and do whatever the heck the DAN doctor said without question until your posts piqued my interest and stirred what little bit of mental capacity I had left at the time

What a priceless gift you've given and from every fiber in my being, I thank you and also Eileen and Laura for your help and guidance. You made a difference and that's pretty cool in my book. I have to go and this is rather rushed, but hopefully was able to say what I wanted to

: o )

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